tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post9118880084205252621..comments2023-03-26T02:27:10.319-07:00Comments on Surly Urbanism: From the Fugitive Slave Act to COINTELPRO: The Racial Surveillance StateSurly Urbanisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01801153194586886826noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-61523135034801559922013-08-22T02:09:35.277-07:002013-08-22T02:09:35.277-07:00This is great!This is great!Thedahttp://bestellipticalsmachine.us/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-69072467519249609372013-07-08T10:30:39.533-07:002013-07-08T10:30:39.533-07:00I was agreeing with you! I do think there's a ...I was agreeing with you! I do think there's a qualitative difference given our advanced technology, but that a structural examination of how surveillance is set up and practiced in this country requires one to look at the long and ongoing practice of racial surveillance and unevenly applied police power. Anxiety over the current technology is fine and good but we're not going to roll back the police state or surveillance in a meaningful way without seriously examining how surveillance is practiced every day in this country. And that practice largely rests upon a long history of racial surveillance. The two are intimately connected. I'm just trying to make that connection clear.Surly Urbanisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01801153194586886826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-34305995214205572102013-07-08T10:13:46.926-07:002013-07-08T10:13:46.926-07:00um..,accidentally hit publish before I was done.
...um..,accidentally hit publish before I was done.<br /><br />I meant to end with:<br /><br />If however I'm mistaken, and I ended up going to a place that ignored your point, I am sorry, and will be continuing to rethink this issue in either case. One Geek in Gradschoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07663813201029606869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-52652547620847565192013-07-08T10:12:05.667-07:002013-07-08T10:12:05.667-07:00What I was trying to say was, I accept that you ar...What I was trying to say was, I accept that you are right. This is a long standing apparatus, that has always been principally, but never exclusively directed at populations considered "problematic" by authorities.<br /><br />The follow on to that acceptance, from my perspective includes (though isn't limited to) how do these new (relatively) techniques alter the apparatus as a whole. So that's where I made a brief stab. <br /><br />I don't claim to have a well developed, and thoroughly researched history of or present day analysis of other parts of the apparatus, but I know some about it. I figured this was sufficient ground to launch a blog comment about how these techniques fit into the apparatus as a whole, and first order effects of how this changes the apparatus. One Geek in Gradschoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07663813201029606869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-74916621281814520842013-07-07T21:00:59.496-07:002013-07-07T21:00:59.496-07:00I agree that the new technology allows for a wider...I agree that the new technology allows for a wider net and greater exploitation of potentially unwitting participants and this changes the game. I was simply trying to make a connection between the surveillance state, history, and the uneven application of these strategies. To me, if we're not talking about the whole apparatus, then we won't be able to truly strike at what terrifies most about these actions, but that means we have to serious discuss racism and that's always hard.Surly Urbanisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01801153194586886826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4911854789833802604.post-79412105161142298812013-07-07T20:10:26.552-07:002013-07-07T20:10:26.552-07:00I absolutely agree that revelations of the details...I absolutely agree that revelations of the details of NSA and other US orgs electronic surveilance need to be placed in this context of a history of surveilance of Blacks and other "problem populations" wether the no longer targeted Jewish population, or the now targeted Muslim population.<br /><br />What we should be asking is how do these specific technologies and techniques change the systems of surveillance. One thing it seems to me reading accounts of what metadata based dragnet databases allow is that this is a major expansion of the government's ability to create *unwitting* informants, where you have effectively "named names" to gov agencies without any knowing contact with the agencies. Now of course lots of techniques have been aimed at this goal, from the simple stakeout, to conventional wiretapping, to monitoring financial records, and so on. But the thoroughness of the databases that at least some of the discussion seems to indicate, and its increased difficulty to detect seem to represent a jump in the ease at which this can be done (or at least a jump circa 10 years ago). It's also much harder to detect than some older methods. We can guess what sort of populations are queried from databases by agents, based on exactly the history you mention, we have little chance in guessing which people specifically have been flagged. <br /><br />Regarding white harm by enforcement of racism, I tend to think that, and I'm not sure the original source here, is that while racism is against blacks (and other racialized groups) "for the sake of" whites, it is not "for the sake of" all whites equally. It is specifically for the white political elite. The system has always been willing to tolerate some level of "collateral damage" against white people, mostly not belonging to political elite.<br /><br />btw this is @springaldjack from twitter. One Geek in Gradschoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07663813201029606869noreply@blogger.com